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	<title>Comments on: Another View on BPM 2.0</title>
	<atom:link href="http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/</link>
	<description>New Rules for a New IT World</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5</generator>
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		<title>By: Tomoaki Sawada</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-69040</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomoaki Sawada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-69040</guid>
		<description>Hi  Bruce and Ismael.  1 Year afiter Bruce wrote in this article that
"the revolutionary thesis of the 2003 book BPM: The Third Wave by Smith and Fingar, for which Intalio was of course the model."
Peter Fingar now comes up with new term in his column with the  title of  "The Greatest Innovation Since BPM" in his column at BPTrends at 
http://www.bptrends.com/deliver_file.cfm?fileType=publication&#38;fileName=SIX%2D03%2D07%2DCOL%2DTheGreatestInnovationSinceBPM%2DFingar%2DFinal1%2Epdf.
Referenced article on Inforamtion age calls "human interaction management system" as "fourth wave of business automation". Looks like HIMS is another side of the coin of Office 2.0 with more scent of HUMAN-centered view of BPM2.0. Appreciate your comments in separate post if you think appropriate. Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi  Bruce and Ismael.  1 Year afiter Bruce wrote in this article that<br />
&#8220;the revolutionary thesis of the 2003 book <span class="caps">BPM</span>: The Third Wave by Smith and Fingar, for which Intalio was of course the model.&#8221;<br />
Peter Fingar now comes up with new term in his column with the  title of  &#8220;The Greatest Innovation Since <span class="caps">BPM</span>&#8221; in his column at BPTrends at<br />
<a href="http://www.bptrends.com/deliver_file.cfm?fileType=publication&amp;fileName=SIX%2D03%2D07%2DCOL%2DTheGreatestInnovationSinceBPM%2DFingar%2DFinal1%2Epdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.bptrends.com/deliver_file.cfm?fileType=publication&amp;fileName=<span class="caps">SIX</span>%2D03%2D07%<span class="caps">2DCOL</span>%2DTheGreatestInnovationSinceBPM%2DFingar%2DFinal1%2Epdf</a>.<br />
Referenced article on Inforamtion age calls &#8220;human interaction management system&#8221; as &#8220;fourth wave of business automation&#8221;. Looks like <span class="caps">HIMS</span> is another side of the coin of Office 2.0 with more scent of <span class="caps">HUMAN</span>-centered view of <span class="caps">BPM2</span>.0. Appreciate your comments in separate post if you think appropriate.&nbsp;Regards</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Ip</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Ip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-398</guid>
		<description>It is interesting to watch the technical debates on BPM. Here is my two-cent worth of observations culminating from over 40 years of business experience.

BPMN and BPMS in BPM 2.0 are the realization of "Application Development without Programmers" as envisioned by Dr. James Martin more than 20 years ago. Workflow engine was a natural extension of Xerox’s research and experimental workflow system entitled “Star” from which GUI and object-oriented programming (Smalltalk) originated.

The ‘we and them’ mindset is a die-hard species! In the early 50’s of 20th century, Rear Admiral, Dr. Grace Hopper (mother of COBOL) punched tapes to program the first-generation computer to compute entries for artillery ordinance tables. Nowadays, five years old children use computers to play and learn. Shouldn’t we erase the artificial line that separates an organization into business and IT communities? If we do, we don’t need any “strategic alignment”!

Is there a big difference between BPMS and Workflow Engine from a business perspective? They are just two sides of the same coin. The one with the most extensibility, under the hood, for “plug and play” software and hardware components will win!

As BPM evolves, it is very likely that it will replace custom designed and built SCADA (Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition) system for real-time process control applications. Examples are production control, intelligent building, area traffic management, remote sensing, patient vital signs monitory instrumentation, and telecommunication network management.

BP (Business Process) is more than order fulfillment for the management of supply and demand chains. There is “information pollution” for many top executives who need in time and relevant data &#38; information, which internal systems can never supply. They need external business intelligent data and information to make strategic decisions. In the 70’s, Operations Research community was asked by oil executives, “Why couldn’t you forecast the oil embargo by the OPEC?”

UML has been a “de jure” standard, adopted by ISO, for extensible modelling language. One can find UML extensions in GIS (Geographic Information System), SysML for systems engineering, and STEP (another ISO standard) in product data description and exchange. Incorporating BPMN into UML to replace "Activity Diagram" is a real blessing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting to watch the technical debates on <span class="caps">BPM</span>. Here is my two-cent worth of observations culminating from over 40 years of business&nbsp;experience.</p>
<p><span class="caps">BPMN</span> and <span class="caps">BPMS</span> in <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 are the realization of &#8220;Application Development without Programmers&#8221; as envisioned by Dr. James Martin more than 20 years ago. Workflow engine was a natural extension of Xerox’s research and experimental workflow system entitled “Star” from which <span class="caps">GUI</span> and object-oriented programming (Smalltalk)&nbsp;originated.</p>
<p>The ‘we and them’ mindset is a die-hard species! In the early 50’s of 20th century, Rear Admiral, Dr. Grace Hopper (mother of <span class="caps">COBOL</span>) punched tapes to program the first-generation computer to compute entries for artillery ordinance tables. Nowadays, five years old children use computers to play and learn. Shouldn’t we erase the artificial line that separates an organization into business and <span class="caps">IT</span> communities? If we do, we don’t need any “strategic&nbsp;alignment”!</p>
<p>Is there a big difference between <span class="caps">BPMS</span> and Workflow Engine from a business perspective? They are just two sides of the same coin. The one with the most extensibility, under the hood, for “plug and play” software and hardware components will&nbsp;win!</p>
<p>As <span class="caps">BPM</span> evolves, it is very likely that it will replace custom designed and built <span class="caps">SCADA</span> (Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition) system for real-time process control applications. Examples are production control, intelligent building, area traffic management, remote sensing, patient vital signs monitory instrumentation, and telecommunication network&nbsp;management.</p>
<p><span class="caps">BP</span> (Business Process) is more than order fulfillment for the management of supply and demand chains. There is “information pollution” for many top executives who need in time and relevant data <span class="amp">&amp;</span> information, which internal systems can never supply. They need external business intelligent data and information to make strategic decisions. In the 70’s, Operations Research community was asked by oil executives, “Why couldn’t you forecast the oil embargo by the&nbsp;<span class="caps">OPEC</span>?”</p>
<p><span class="caps">UML</span> has been a “de jure” standard, adopted by <span class="caps">ISO</span>, for extensible modelling language. One can find <span class="caps">UML</span> extensions in <span class="caps">GIS</span> (Geographic Information System), SysML for systems engineering, and <span class="caps">STEP</span> (another <span class="caps">ISO</span> standard) in product data description and exchange. Incorporating <span class="caps">BPMN</span> into <span class="caps">UML</span> to replace &#8220;Activity Diagram&#8221; is a real&nbsp;blessing!</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Smith</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 20:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-306</guid>
		<description>BPEL and XPDL are just different paradigms. BPEL allows for the construction of a BPMS that can reuse processes expressed in any other language. XPDL does not. XPDL is a  much higher level language, in reality, an XML schema to describe workflows. Workflows are only one possible process. If you are a workflow vendor, and have been working in WfMC.org for some years, you may have implemented, or been influenced by XPDL. That's to be expected. If you are a BPMS vendor, then you have to be in the BPEL space. 

To the BPMS vendor, workflow is just a pattern deployed on the BPMS. That is, a BPMS can morph to be a workflow engine, just by adding the required process definition (in BPEL) that executes the way a workflow engine does. It can also morph to look like ERP, an SMTP server or any other kind of process. And of course, with swimlanes (utterly separate processes interacting only by communicating), it can combine all these processes into end to end distributed, concurrent, persistent, transactional or collaborative processes. Workflow products cannot do that. A workflow engine cannot be anything other than what it is, a workflow engine. It can execute any workflow, but it can only execute workflows. 

Now, all that may be academic to some users of course. I expect BPMS to solve some big challenges that a WFMS cannot. I expect BPEL to solve some big challenges that XPDL cannot. The two paradigms may persist for quite a while. Here is a prediction for 2006:

We'll see the first next generation workflow systems built on a BPMS. Why? Take a guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="caps">BPEL</span> and <span class="caps">XPDL</span> are just different paradigms. <span class="caps">BPEL</span> allows for the construction of a <span class="caps">BPMS</span> that can reuse processes expressed in any other language. <span class="caps">XPDL</span> does not. <span class="caps">XPDL</span> is a  much higher level language, in reality, an <span class="caps">XML</span> schema to describe workflows. Workflows are only one possible process. If you are a workflow vendor, and have been working in WfMC.org for some years, you may have implemented, or been influenced by <span class="caps">XPDL</span>. That&#8217;s to be expected. If you are a <span class="caps">BPMS</span> vendor, then you have to be in the <span class="caps">BPEL</span>&nbsp;space. </p>
<p>To the <span class="caps">BPMS</span> vendor, workflow is just a pattern deployed on the <span class="caps">BPMS</span>. That is, a <span class="caps">BPMS</span> can morph to be a workflow engine, just by adding the required process definition (in <span class="caps">BPEL</span>) that executes the way a workflow engine does. It can also morph to look like <span class="caps">ERP</span>, an <span class="caps">SMTP</span> server or any other kind of process. And of course, with swimlanes (utterly separate processes interacting only by communicating), it can combine all these processes into end to end distributed, concurrent, persistent, transactional or collaborative processes. Workflow products cannot do that. A workflow engine cannot be anything other than what it is, a workflow engine. It can execute any workflow, but it can only execute&nbsp;workflows. </p>
<p>Now, all that may be academic to some users of course. I expect <span class="caps">BPMS</span> to solve some big challenges that a <span class="caps">WFMS</span> cannot. I expect <span class="caps">BPEL</span> to solve some big challenges that <span class="caps">XPDL</span> cannot. The two paradigms may persist for quite a while. Here is a prediction for&nbsp;2006:</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll see the first next generation workflow systems built on a <span class="caps">BPMS</span>. Why? Take a&nbsp;guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Silver</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Silver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-297</guid>
		<description>The comments above center on 2 separate issues.  BPEL vs XPDL is more about architecture and standards than the languages themselves.  BPEL is really short for process designs based on a more-or-less-standard (common) process engine using service orchestration, while XPDL is really short for designs based on vendor-specific process engines all more-or-less-attuned to the WfMC (workflow) reference model.  So they are not equivalent "standards."

The larger issue is how Ismael's BPM 2.0 differs from earlier conceptions of BPM, such as my original BPM 2.0 formulation ("process without programming") based on my (perhaps faulty) understanding of Howard's book BPM: The Third Wave.  The promise then was that BPM, based on SOA standards, would give "the business" the tools to directly implement executable processes and change them quickly.  In reality, however, the complexity of SOA has firmly established IT in the driver's seat of BPEL implementations, and they don't want "the business" anywhere close to implementing anything directly.  I think this is why BPMS vendors that really do try to give implementation directly to "the business" -- like Phil Gilbert -- have such a visceral aversion to BPEL.

Ismael's reformulation addresses this.  In the new BPM 2.0, process implementations will done by IT "process analysts", but require little or no code and only widely available skillsets, not J2EE programming.  This is also consistent with IBM's description of the target user of WebSphere Integration Developer, it's BPEL tool.  In response to some comments, Ismael has added a role for the business in process modeling and simulation analysis as a precursor to BPEL design.  In this way, the "new" BPM 2.0 addresses the real elephant in the room, which is business-IT alignment and finding new ways to react quickly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments above center on 2 separate issues.  <span class="caps">BPEL</span> vs <span class="caps">XPDL</span> is more about architecture and standards than the languages themselves.  <span class="caps">BPEL</span> is really short for process designs based on a more-or-less-standard (common) process engine using service orchestration, while <span class="caps">XPDL</span> is really short for designs based on vendor-specific process engines all more-or-less-attuned to the WfMC (workflow) reference model.  So they are not equivalent&nbsp;&#8220;standards.&#8221;</p>
<p>The larger issue is how Ismael&#8217;s <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 differs from earlier conceptions of <span class="caps">BPM</span>, such as my original <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 formulation (&#8221;process without programming&#8221;) based on my (perhaps faulty) understanding of Howard&#8217;s book <span class="caps">BPM</span>: The Third Wave.  The promise then was that <span class="caps">BPM</span>, based on <span class="caps">SOA</span> standards, would give &#8220;the business&#8221; the tools to directly implement executable processes and change them quickly.  In reality, however, the complexity of <span class="caps">SOA</span> has firmly established <span class="caps">IT</span> in the driver&#8217;s seat of <span class="caps">BPEL</span> implementations, and they don&#8217;t want &#8220;the business&#8221; anywhere close to implementing anything directly.  I think this is why <span class="caps">BPMS</span> vendors that really do try to give implementation directly to &#8220;the business&#8221;&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;like Phil Gilbert&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;have such a visceral aversion to&nbsp;<span class="caps">BPEL</span>.</p>
<p>Ismael&#8217;s reformulation addresses this.  In the new <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0, process implementations will done by <span class="caps">IT</span> &#8220;process analysts&#8221;, but require little or no code and only widely available skillsets, not <span class="caps">J2EE</span> programming.  This is also consistent with <span class="caps">IBM</span>&#8217;s description of the target user of WebSphere Integration Developer, it&#8217;s <span class="caps">BPEL</span> tool.  In response to some comments, Ismael has added a role for the business in process modeling and simulation analysis as a precursor to <span class="caps">BPEL</span> design.  In this way, the &#8220;new&#8221; <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 addresses the real elephant in the room, which is business-<span class="caps">IT</span> alignment and finding new ways to react&nbsp;quickly.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-295</guid>
		<description>Is BPEL really the standard?

Quote from the minutes of the joint BPMI-OMG Meeting (Washington, D.C. – November 2, 2004): "The WfMC has not developed a notation for XPDL. They may adopt BPMN. WfMC members are working with the BPMI Notation Working Group to build a mapping from BPMN to XPDL. WfMC sees XPDL as the transport mechanism (XML Schema) for BPMN."

So there seems to be at least XPDL as a serious contender to BPEL. My impression is that BPMN is a de-facto standard and BPEL is one — perhaps even the most widely used one — 'transport mechanism' for BPMN, but not the only one. Also, as Bruce Silver has pointed out elsewhere, there is currently more XPDL than BPEL support among BPMS vendors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is <span class="caps">BPEL</span> really the&nbsp;standard?</p>
<p>Quote from the minutes of the joint <span class="caps">BPMI</span>-<span class="caps">OMG</span> Meeting (Washington, <span class="caps">D.C.</span>– November 2, 2004): &#8220;The WfMC has not developed a notation for <span class="caps">XPDL</span>. They may adopt <span class="caps">BPMN</span>. WfMC members are working with the <span class="caps">BPMI</span> Notation Working Group to build a mapping from <span class="caps">BPMN</span> to <span class="caps">XPDL</span>. WfMC sees <span class="caps">XPDL</span> as the transport mechanism (<span class="caps">XML</span> Schema) for&nbsp;<span class="caps">BPMN</span>.&#8221;</p>
<p>So there seems to be at least <span class="caps">XPDL</span> as a serious contender to <span class="caps">BPEL</span>. My impression is that <span class="caps">BPMN</span> is a de-facto standard and <span class="caps">BPEL</span> is one — perhaps even the most widely used one — &#8216;transport mechanism&#8217; for <span class="caps">BPMN</span>, but not the only one. Also, as Bruce Silver has pointed out elsewhere, there is currently more <span class="caps">XPDL</span> than <span class="caps">BPEL</span> support among <span class="caps">BPMS</span>&nbsp;vendors.</p>
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		<title>By: Ismael Ghalimi</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>Ismael Ghalimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-292</guid>
		<description>Phil,

BPEL is the standard for executing processes. Why fight against it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,</p>
<p><span class="caps">BPEL</span> is the standard for executing processes. Why fight against&nbsp;it?</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Gilbert &#124; Perspectives in Process</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Gilbert &#124; Perspectives in Process</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 17:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-289</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;BPELephant...&lt;/strong&gt;

 The elephant in the BPM room is this: BPEL and BPMN won't provide seamless round-trip engineering; BPEL is a wrong-headed distraction. "Please papa can I go Down to Richmond to the traveling show Please papa don't say I can't...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>BPELephant&#8230;</strong></p>
<p> The elephant in the <span class="caps">BPM</span> room is this: <span class="caps">BPEL</span> and <span class="caps">BPMN</span> won&#8217;t provide seamless round-trip engineering; <span class="caps">BPEL</span> is a wrong-headed distraction. &#8220;Please papa can I go Down to Richmond to the traveling show Please papa don&#8217;t say I&nbsp;can&#8217;t&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Doug McClure</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug McClure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 16:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-285</guid>
		<description>[...] The concept of BPM 2.0 was coined by Bruce Silver and first implemented by company called Intalio. From what I&#8217;ve read on their website and on the ITRedux blog there may be some very exciting opportunities here to leverage their open source (free) platform as an enabling technology for BSM and BAM (which they&#8217;ve embedded into their product!). The BPMS concept introduced here by Ismael Ghalimi, CEO of Intalio. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] The concept of <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 was coined by Bruce Silver and first implemented by company called Intalio. From what I&#8217;ve read on their website and on the ITRedux blog there may be some very exciting opportunities here to leverage their open source (free) platform as an enabling technology for <span class="caps">BSM</span> and <span class="caps">BAM</span> (which they&#8217;ve embedded into their product!). The <span class="caps">BPMS</span> concept introduced here by Ismael Ghalimi, <span class="caps">CEO</span> of Intalio.&nbsp;[&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Smith</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-253</guid>
		<description>Bruce Silver says that he Third Wave is dead, on the basis that current BPMS products are not usable by business people, only process analysts. Firstly, he should read the book. The definition of the Third Wave is on page 18 (which also defines the first two waves), and page 118, where it is defined in terms of 15 attributes, and on pages 123 to 126, where 31 new rules of "third wave" BPM are described. In addition, the book was not tied to or based on Intalio, but on Computer Science Corporations work over 2 decades, including Business Process Reengineering (BPR). But of course, I do agree that Intalio, and other members of BPMI.org during the 2001 to 2003 period, contributed greatly to the vision of the Third Wave. I would also point out that waves, unlike points in time, take place over time. The wave has not yet played out. Take a look at Web 2.0 to see other aspects of the Wave (epitomized by AppExhange). The trend towards business people defining their own IT functionality is coming along quite nicely. In fact, the separation of software logic to editable and manipulatable content (the first terms we used for this in CSC in 1999), is growing apace. 

Bruce, I do however agree with you that the definition of BPMS needs to be adjusted. BPM 2.0 as  term, misses the point that a BPMS really is a quite radical architecture and computing paradigm. So the real issue is to define this new category more formally. It will be based around a virtual machine for concurrent execution and a design driven architecture (DDA) built around "process" as a new abstract computing entity (subsuming and syntheziing today's separate paradigms of code, data, messages, rules, etc. I think the reality is, BPM 2.0 is really about the BPMS and what it really is, as opposed to incumbant distortions from existing product categories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce Silver says that he Third Wave is dead, on the basis that current <span class="caps">BPMS</span> products are not usable by business people, only process analysts. Firstly, he should read the book. The definition of the Third Wave is on page 18 (which also defines the first two waves), and page 118, where it is defined in terms of 15 attributes, and on pages 123 to 126, where 31 new rules of &#8220;third wave&#8221; <span class="caps">BPM</span> are described. In addition, the book was not tied to or based on Intalio, but on Computer Science Corporations work over 2 decades, including Business Process Reengineering (<span class="caps">BPR</span>). But of course, I do agree that Intalio, and other members of <span class="caps">BPMI</span>.org during the 2001 to 2003 period, contributed greatly to the vision of the Third Wave. I would also point out that waves, unlike points in time, take place over time. The wave has not yet played out. Take a look at Web 2.0 to see other aspects of the Wave (epitomized by AppExhange). The trend towards business people defining their own <span class="caps">IT</span> functionality is coming along quite nicely. In fact, the separation of software logic to editable and manipulatable content (the first terms we used for this in <span class="caps">CSC</span> in 1999), is growing&nbsp;apace. </p>
<p>Bruce, I do however agree with you that the definition of <span class="caps">BPMS</span> needs to be adjusted. <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 as  term, misses the point that a <span class="caps">BPMS</span> really is a quite radical architecture and computing paradigm. So the real issue is to define this new category more formally. It will be based around a virtual machine for concurrent execution and a design driven architecture (<span class="caps">DDA</span>) built around &#8220;process&#8221; as a new abstract computing entity (subsuming and syntheziing today&#8217;s separate paradigms of code, data, messages, rules, etc. I think the reality is, <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 is really about the <span class="caps">BPMS</span> and what it really is, as opposed to incumbant distortions from existing product&nbsp;categories.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Silver</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Silver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-250</guid>
		<description>Your statement that BPEL needs to fix the human interaction problem in for BPM 2.0 to take off is right on.  But right now BPEL4People is just a half-baked white paper, nowhere close to a spec, and its authors really never made the case for adding a new activity type.  I've written a long list of questions to the BPEL4People team at IBM and SAP,  to which they promised a response.  But I'm still waiting. Expect a post on this topic in a week or so, whether they respond or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your statement that <span class="caps">BPEL</span> needs to fix the human interaction problem in for <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 to take off is right on.  But right now BPEL4People is just a half-baked white paper, nowhere close to a spec, and its authors really never made the case for adding a new activity type.  I&#8217;ve written a long list of questions to the BPEL4People team at <span class="caps">IBM</span> and <span class="caps">SAP</span>,  to which they promised a response.  But I&#8217;m still waiting. Expect a post on this topic in a week or so, whether they respond or&nbsp;not.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Noble</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/blog/2006/02/02/another-view-on-bpm-20/#comment-249</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of your points, and Ismael's, but I don't think we can have BPM 2.0 without people... a standard way of integrating manual activities into business processes. Until something like BPEL4People gets real traction, WS-BPEL isn't enough. We're narrowing the areas where vendors have to provide proprietary solutions, but we've still got plenty of work to do. I look forward to the day when commercial BPM vendors earn their money by providing capabilities above and beyond the basics, building on a commodified base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of your points, and Ismael&#8217;s, but I don&#8217;t think we can have <span class="caps">BPM</span> 2.0 without people&#8230; a standard way of integrating manual activities into business processes. Until something like BPEL4People gets real traction, <span class="caps">WS</span>-<span class="caps">BPEL</span> isn&#8217;t enough. We&#8217;re narrowing the areas where vendors have to provide proprietary solutions, but we&#8217;ve still got plenty of work to do. I look forward to the day when commercial <span class="caps">BPM</span> vendors earn their money by providing capabilities above and beyond the basics, building on a commodified&nbsp;base.</p>
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