Comments on: What is Wrong with J2EE http://itredux.com/2006/04/03/what-is-wrong-with-j2ee/ New Rules for a New IT World Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:45:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7-beta3 hourly 1 By: IT|Redux http://itredux.com/2006/04/03/what-is-wrong-with-j2ee/comment-page-1/#comment-7929 IT|Redux Sat, 12 Aug 2006 07:13:51 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2006/04/03/whats-wrong-with-j2ee/#comment-7929 [...] Back in April, I explained what is wrong with J2EE. Today, I will try to identify who cannot write J2EE code, with an interesting customer example, as part of our second BPM 2.0 weekly series. [...] […] Back in April, I explained what is wrong with J2EE. Today, I will try to identify who cannot write J2EE code, with an interesting customer example, as part of our second BPM 2.0 weekly series. […]

]]> By: Ismael Ghalimi http://itredux.com/2006/04/03/what-is-wrong-with-j2ee/comment-page-1/#comment-6168 Ismael Ghalimi Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:50:54 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2006/04/03/whats-wrong-with-j2ee/#comment-6168 Jim, I could not agree more with your summary of the situation. Jim,

I could not agree more with your summary of the situation.

]]> By: Jim Amsden http://itredux.com/2006/04/03/what-is-wrong-with-j2ee/comment-page-1/#comment-6166 Jim Amsden Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:33:07 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2006/04/03/whats-wrong-with-j2ee/#comment-6166 Yes, J2EE is complex, but so is building high performance, secure, transaction-aware, distributed, integrated enterprise applications. I see J2EE as the evolving assembly language supporting such applications. Clearly, abstraction and model-driven development are needed to make J2EE accessible to developers who need to focus on their business problems. This is a common evolution in computer science that is likely to repeat itself a number of times. But another possible problem with J2EE is that we tooled J2EE based on what it is (the J2EE specifications) rather than by how it is used. This perhaps needlessly exposed unnecessary complexity to J2EE users. As an industry, we need to be careful that we do not make this mistake again with SOA. Otherwise we might end up recreating the same complex solution with tools for WS-* based on an XML foundation. Yes, J2EE is complex, but so is building high performance, secure, transaction-aware, distributed, integrated enterprise applications. I see J2EE as the evolving assembly language supporting such applications. Clearly, abstraction and model-driven development are needed to make J2EE accessible to developers who need to focus on their business problems. This is a common evolution in computer science that is likely to repeat itself a number of times.

But another possible problem with J2EE is that we tooled J2EE based on what it is (the J2EE specifications) rather than by how it is used. This perhaps needlessly exposed unnecessary complexity to J2EE users. As an industry, we need to be careful that we do not make this mistake again with SOA. Otherwise we might end up recreating the same complex solution with tools for WS-* based on an XML foundation.

]]> By: Tom Debevoise http://itredux.com/2006/04/03/what-is-wrong-with-j2ee/comment-page-1/#comment-1173 Tom Debevoise Thu, 06 Apr 2006 15:25:18 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2006/04/03/whats-wrong-with-j2ee/#comment-1173 I would agree with you. Our shop has been using J2EE for five years now, and I have noted that it can take three years or more to become proficient. This is ridiculous. One of our big commercial clients still uses Oracle's PL/SQL for the majority of their development. I suspect you would find a great many IT shops using PL/SQL. The reason is simple. A computer science graduate can be proficient with it in a matter of months. Plus, it is not difficult for others to maintain this code. The tools that big BPM vendors, like webMethods and SeeBeyond, provide are mostly fancy front-ends to complicated J2EE development. Whenever you need to do something complex, such as manipulate vectors of datatypes, you immediately drop into their Java development environment. To develop complex process scenarios, your developers must be proficient in J2EE, plus they must be well versed in the BPM product's particular classes of Java. I would agree with you. Our shop has been using J2EE for five years now, and I have noted that it can take three years or more to become proficient. This is ridiculous. One of our big commercial clients still uses Oracle’s PL/SQL for the majority of their development. I suspect you would find a great many IT shops using PL/SQL. The reason is simple. A computer science graduate can be proficient with it in a matter of months. Plus, it is not difficult for others to maintain this code.

The tools that big BPM vendors, like webMethods and SeeBeyond, provide are mostly fancy front-ends to complicated J2EE development. Whenever you need to do something complex, such as manipulate vectors of datatypes, you immediately drop into their Java development environment. To develop complex process scenarios, your developers must be proficient in J2EE, plus they must be well versed in the BPM product’s particular classes of Java.

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