Comments on: Process Discovery http://itredux.com/2008/03/07/process-discovery/ New Rules for a New IT World Sat, 11 Oct 2008 03:10:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Ismael Ghalimi http://itredux.com/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-862082 Ismael Ghalimi Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:13:33 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-862082 Ron, Good question. A couple of reasons: 1. Most people do this first step with a spreadsheet. 2. It's too dependent on a non-standard execution platform. 3. I'm nice with my competitors, but not to the point of working for them. That being said, I like the product's name. Right on target. Best regards -Ismael Ron,

Good question. A couple of reasons:

1. Most people do this first step with a spreadsheet.

2. It’s too dependent on a non-standard execution platform.

3. I’m nice with my competitors, but not to the point of working for them.

That being said, I like the product’s name. Right on target.

Best regards
 -Ismael

]]> By: Ron Gal http://itredux.com/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-859163 Ron Gal Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:22:46 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-859163 Why not use Lombardi Blueprint for the initial (textual) stage? I'm not working for them, just curious.. Why not use Lombardi Blueprint for the initial (textual) stage?

I’m not working for them, just curious..

]]> By: Ismael Ghalimi http://itredux.com/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-823600 Ismael Ghalimi Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:48:20 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-823600 David, We found it actually quite challenging to develop the tool you're talking about, especially when your goal is to have a tool that will be used by business people and technical folks alike. There are also many aspect of BPEL-based process execution, such the definition of correlations, that are quite complex from a technical standpoint, and this is exactly where some training can help. As far as generic BPMN process modeling is concerned, I agree with you that the need for proper training is lower, and this is precisely why we introduced an online BPMN training for it, which takes only 3 hours of your time, versus the 2 to 3 days of our regular offline training. Regarding the autopilot you referred to, I could not agree more with the fact that we need such a tool. The challenge will be to develop the proper user interface for it though, for you do not want to end up in a situation where you invested a lot of efforts in developing something that will be no better than Microsoft Office's old Paperclip, which people hated passionately. All that being said, I have no idea of what to expect from the Intalio training, and this is precisely why I would like to attend one session. I will make sure to document everything I learned there, and to outline the parts that I could have done without, if any. It's all about eating your own dog food... Best regards -Ismael David,

We found it actually quite challenging to develop the tool you’re talking about, especially when your goal is to have a tool that will be used by business people and technical folks alike. There are also many aspect of BPEL-based process execution, such the definition of correlations, that are quite complex from a technical standpoint, and this is exactly where some training can help.

As far as generic BPMN process modeling is concerned, I agree with you that the need for proper training is lower, and this is precisely why we introduced an online BPMN training for it, which takes only 3 hours of your time, versus the 2 to 3 days of our regular offline training.

Regarding the autopilot you referred to, I could not agree more with the fact that we need such a tool. The challenge will be to develop the proper user interface for it though, for you do not want to end up in a situation where you invested a lot of efforts in developing something that will be no better than Microsoft Office’s old Paperclip, which people hated passionately.

All that being said, I have no idea of what to expect from the Intalio training, and this is precisely why I would like to attend one session. I will make sure to document everything I learned there, and to outline the parts that I could have done without, if any. It’s all about eating your own dog food…

Best regards
 -Ismael

]]> By: Alexander Samarin http://itredux.com/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-823166 Alexander Samarin Sat, 08 Mar 2008 11:21:28 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-823166 I try to eliminate this gap in the training course <a href="http://www.improving-bpm-systems.com/teaching-bpm">Modelling of Business Processes with Intalio BPM Suite</a>. The core of this course is a systematic approach (procedure, diagramming style, patterns, examples) for the modeling of executable business processes, while BPMN and Intalio|BPMS are just very appropriate tools. Thanks, -AS I try to eliminate this gap in the training course Modelling of Business Processes with Intalio BPM Suite. The core of this course is a systematic approach (procedure, diagramming style, patterns, examples) for the modeling of executable business processes, while BPMN and Intalio|BPMS are just very appropriate tools.

Thanks,
 -AS

]]> By: David French http://itredux.com/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-822661 David French Sat, 08 Mar 2008 04:39:24 +0000 http://itredux.com/blog/2008/03/07/process-discovery/#comment-822661 Why do we need training for BPMN and BPMS? BPMN is intended to formalise the definition of real world business processes. BPMS implementations take a formal definition of business processes (which should be derivable from the BPMN) and control the flow of information around the process. How difficult can it be to develop design tools to the point that they help the designer think in terms of best practices, and follow the rules of BPMN? Although there is some good training for process design becoming available, I question how much we should be reliant on it to get to work with a formal language (BPMN), with absolute rules that are intended to describe things that we are familiar with in everyday business. It is not like teaching English to Korean speakers! I would like Ismael to also consider how the Intalio|Designer toolset could be improved with an autopilot or helper that leads you through the process of designing a process and explains the rules of BPMN as you go. Why do we need training for BPMN and BPMS?

BPMN is intended to formalise the definition of real world business processes. BPMS implementations take a formal definition of business processes (which should be derivable from the BPMN) and control the flow of information around the process. How difficult can it be to develop design tools to the point that they help the designer think in terms of best practices, and follow the rules of BPMN?

Although there is some good training for process design becoming available, I question how much we should be reliant on it to get to work with a formal language (BPMN), with absolute rules that are intended to describe things that we are familiar with in everyday business. It is not like teaching English to Korean speakers!

I would like Ismael to also consider how the Intalio|Designer toolset could be improved with an autopilot or helper that leads you through the process of designing a process and explains the rules of BPMN as you go.

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