Let’s keep politics out of the discussion, please. The analogy you’re making brings us down to the level of recent political maneuverings that are despicable at best. Definitely not worthy of this forum. But let’s move on.

It is very important to know which systems can execute such a basic diagram. It describes what distributed processes mean, and claiming that it does not matter is akin to claiming that distributed processes do not matter. If such is your point, then I’ll acknowledge it, and live with the fact that we’re definitely talking about two very different kinds of BPM. I hope this is not the case.

BPEL is not just another process execution language. It is the only process execution language I know that can support the execution of distributed processes on top of a standards-based Service Oriented Architecture. This might not matter to business analysts only interested by Business Process Re-engineering, but it sure does matter to the very BPM practitioners we’re working with.

Any serialization language for executable processes implies an architecture, whether you like it or not, and XPDL is no different in that respect. BPEL implies a fundamentally different architecture, and this is precisely the point I am trying to make. They are not the same, have both pros and cons, and I’m trying to foster an educated and honest discussion about them.

My original argument is about Pi-Calculus, what makes it powerful (channel passing), and the fact that BPEL supports it, natively, hence supports the execution of the process described in this article.

Confrontational, maybe. Relentless, certainly. So I’m going to ask again. Which tool do you know can support the execution of such process models, in a distributed fashion, on top of a Service Oriented Architecture, without having to write code? I know for a fact that Oracle BPM can do that, for it relies on BPMN and BPEL. I know SAP’s BPM product can do that as well, for it also relies on BPMN and BPEL. I just can’t think of any other product that can, and this is precisely the problem I am having. Am I blind, or is it that no other product can? And why is it so very painful for other vendors to admit it? If they do different things in different ways, let’s celebrate our differences. But for them to be celebrated, they have to be acknowledged first.

Best regards
 -Ismael

I don’t know why you are being so confrontational about this. You can keep changing the question if you want. The one I commented on was whether other BPMSs could execute the diagram in your post. Which they can, but who cares.

Pi-Calculus is just a mathematical formalism for process analysis. BPEL is just a particular execution language. XPDL is just a serialization format; it’s not an architecture. As a language it’s a superset of BPEL if anything. All this stuff is just irrelevant to your actual argument, which is about event-awareness, Open Source, BPO, whatever… I’m trying to tell you, as a friend, this Pi business is the William Ayers of BPM. It’s not advancing the discussion…

-Bruce

You think they do, or you know they do?

And can they do it purely graphically, with no code behind the arrows?

And can they do it for processes deployed on different servers?

And can they do it in the context of a two-phase-commit transaction?

And could you please send the screenshots to backup your/their claims?

It’s show time baby!

-Ismael

Thanks for the confirmation.

-Ismael

Let’s put a few things to rest off the bat. My feathers aren’t ruffled, and I don’t consider you a “marketing guy” but a freakin BPM genius. OK. But jeez, not this Pi-Calculus thing again! I think you are equating Pi-Calculus with event-aware BPM runtime, e.g. can implement BPMN message flows for async integration. I don’t think that requires Pi-Calculus or BPEL. Here are some XPDL/non-BPEL ones that can do it too: AquaLogic BPM (now Oracle BPM), Fujitsu Interstage, I think also TIBCO iProcess, I think even Adobe LiveCycle. Am I missing something?

-Bruce

Everything else, I’ll leave for the academics to discuss…