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	<title>Comments on: Some More BPEL Fun</title>
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	<link>http://itredux.com/2008/10/24/some-more-bpel-fun/</link>
	<description>New Rules for a New IT World</description>
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		<title>By: Ismael Ghalimi</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2008/10/24/some-more-bpel-fun/comment-page-1/#comment-991106</link>
		<dc:creator>Ismael Ghalimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/?p=558#comment-991106</guid>
		<description>Scott,

BPEL is not the only way to support BPMN, but it&#039;s the best way, for the very many reasons that have been outlined on this blog. It&#039;s also the only standard way I can think of, from the viewpoint of a standard execution language for processes.

Best regards
-Ismael</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p><span class="caps">BPEL</span> is not the only way to support <span class="caps">BPMN</span>, but it&#8217;s the best way, for the very many reasons that have been outlined on this blog. It&#8217;s also the only standard way I can think of, from the viewpoint of a standard execution language for&nbsp;processes.</p>
<p>Best regards<br />&nbsp;-Ismael</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://itredux.com/2008/10/24/some-more-bpel-fun/comment-page-1/#comment-990355</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itredux.com/?p=558#comment-990355</guid>
		<description>Why isn&#039;t BPEL just an implementation detail. In other words, if my execution layer faithfully implements my BPMN diagram well, what matters if it is a BPEL engine, or a Widget Engine, or whatever the heck it is? 

Since I&#039;ve seen perfectly good running processes, on systems that don&#039;t use a BPEL engine under the hood, but which execute a BPMN model... I guess I&#039;m not seeing the connection that for BPMN to work right, it has to be BPEL. I&#039;ve even seen such solutions scale to a tremendous degree.  

I&#039;m not saying BPEL isn&#039;t valuable, I just don&#039;t buy that it is the only answer. It is an answer, it has a spec/standard, and it has a few implementations. That&#039;s all well and good. But it doesn&#039;t mean that someone can&#039;t come up with another answer... 

As an example, think of all the programming languages that also support Java VM implementations of that language (meaning, the language compiles into Java bytecode equivalent and runs inside a JVM).  The language cares not that it is being run by JVM bytecode vs. run by native compiler. Even the person writing the code may not care. I think BPMN is similar -- I don&#039;t care so much about what is executing it so long as it is a &quot;good&quot; execution of my model. And I might choose a &quot;native&quot; compilation or a &quot;BPEL&quot; compilation or a ABCD compilation (whatever the next standard is). 

I think you guys have done a great job with the software, and the evangelism, but I&#039;m not convinced by your arguments and others that BPEL is the only way to implement BPMN.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why isn&#8217;t <span class="caps">BPEL</span> just an implementation detail. In other words, if my execution layer faithfully implements my <span class="caps">BPMN</span> diagram well, what matters if it is a <span class="caps">BPEL</span> engine, or a Widget Engine, or whatever the heck it&nbsp;is? </p>
<p>Since I&#8217;ve seen perfectly good running processes, on systems that don&#8217;t use a <span class="caps">BPEL</span> engine under the hood, but which execute a <span class="caps">BPMN</span> model&#8230; I guess I&#8217;m not seeing the connection that for <span class="caps">BPMN</span> to work right, it has to be <span class="caps">BPEL</span>. I&#8217;ve even seen such solutions scale to a tremendous&nbsp;degree.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying <span class="caps">BPEL</span> isn&#8217;t valuable, I just don&#8217;t buy that it is the only answer. It is an answer, it has a spec/standard, and it has a few implementations. That&#8217;s all well and good. But it doesn&#8217;t mean that someone can&#8217;t come up with another&nbsp;answer&#8230; </p>
<p>As an example, think of all the programming languages that also support Java <span class="caps">VM</span> implementations of that language (meaning, the language compiles into Java bytecode equivalent and runs inside a <span class="caps">JVM</span>).  The language cares not that it is being run by <span class="caps">JVM</span> bytecode vs. run by native compiler. Even the person writing the code may not care. I think <span class="caps">BPMN</span> is similar&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;I don&#8217;t care so much about what is executing it so long as it is a &#8220;good&#8221; execution of my model. And I might choose a &#8220;native&#8221; compilation or a &#8220;<span class="caps">BPEL</span>&#8221; compilation or a <span class="caps">ABCD</span> compilation (whatever the next standard&nbsp;is). </p>
<p>I think you guys have done a great job with the software, and the evangelism, but I&#8217;m not convinced by your arguments and others that <span class="caps">BPEL</span> is the only way to implement&nbsp;<span class="caps">BPMN</span>.</p>
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